This
post treats of a conversation. Only last names are used and the text
is partially redacted. All our comments will be in black, the other
participants' comments in blue.
Where necessary to the purpose of this discussion, all
underlines for emphasis are mine. Likewise, I took liberty to make
some corrections. So get whatever is your favorite beverage and
share this one with a few of your friends:
Brown:
From a TRUMPTARD:
"What
if... what if America is being restored to the original
constitutional republic it once was with gold backed currency
and a moral society that we crave?
I
believe it is Happening.
I
also believe they are using tools such as the “patriot act”
against them this time, to clean out the scum!
But
what if.... will you support that?"
We
note the use of “them,” “scum,” etc. in the above. Emotional
words best used among one's fellow teammates, like the word “spew,”
a highly emotionally charged word. Anyway, the “Trumptard” would
be asking a Leftist, not sure if Brown is one but supposing he is, to
defect and support exactly what?
Brown responds by attacking
gold! (we're chuckling and nodding) Do Brown or the rest of them get
even remotely that gold, silver, etc. are NOT their money? We
maintain that precious metals are the first and oldest brands of
THEIR money which we have been FORCED to use. That includes all
copper coins too. Copper has many uses, as do the other precious
metals. But as money, or specifically the tokens of money (because
ALL money includes its accounting as part of ANY monetary machine),
these are THEIR money, not OUR money. Brown continues:
From
MYSELF:
[1]
The same SCARCE, FINITE COMMODITY under FRAUDULENT VALUE that can be
hoarded and taxed out of circulation leaving the only purchasing
power in the hands of those doing the HOARDING and TAXING and NONE in
the hands of those CREATING THE WEALTH, which has functioned as the
primary means of enslavement for all of humanity for millennia and
established the POWER of the INTESTINAL PARASITES that OWN AMERICA
today ?. YES TRUMP WILL DO THIS considering that his ROTHSCHILD
HANDLERS have been hoarding the world's GOLD SUPPLY out of
circulation for centuries and can simply BUY what they have not
already STOLEN of America in a single day. The only reason they gave
you FIAT DEBT was that they SUCKED all the GOLD out of circulation in
INTEREST a century ago and needed some means to SUCKER the population
into creating more wealth for them to STEAL LATER.
[2]
There is ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE for Americans, they are FAR
TOO STUPID and GULLIBLE. No ability to THINK, to put any form of
cause and consequence together whatsoever. All they can do is dream
of reverting to FORMER INANITIES that CREATED THIS MESS IN THE FIRST
PLACE. Notwithstanding that Franklin actually did have a FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM OF TRADE operating for 50 years before the revolution until
the BRITISH BANKS forced the King to shut him down. It WORKED because
they had NO BANKS and because they had NO GOLD.
[3]
Your DREAM is a NIGHTMARE and will leave you STARVING IN THE STREETS
but then so will you under the current INSANITY within the next few
years. Likewise the Constitution gave CORRUPT POLITICIANS the ability
to make up PEOPLE'S BULLSHIT STATUTE LAWS in VIOLATION of the few
natural rights it purportedly guarantees and in VIOLATION of the
NATURAL LAW secured as the foundation in the Declaration. This
likewise has ENABLED this system of LEGAL PLUNDER founded in LEGAL
FICTION none of which can NATURALLY EXIST.
[4]
You KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, YOU ONLY BELIEVE.
[5]
I'll give them $ 20.00 worth of work in my shop for a pound of their
GOLD. About what it's worth for it's useful properties balanced
against it's so called scarcity. I pay twice that for good grade
aircraft aluminum, i can build useful shit with that. SHINY BAUBLES
AND TRINKETS are NOT the FOUNDATION of a FREE and FUNCTIONING
ECONOMY, only a DEN OF THIEVES.
Of
course I numbered Brown's statements for a reason. His remarks are
what prompted this post. If someone is to be taken seriously, and I
assure you all that Brown has an awareness of a lot of apparent
realities that we all can agree upon, once exposed to full view. So
of course, I am going to take this opportunity to respond more fully
to Brown's remarks as befits them:
His
first sentence in {1} stated as a rhetorical question: he is aware
that contrary to everything the so called “Austrians” preach,
precious metals are the ENSLAVEMENT of humanity, not its salvation!
The whole hard asset money economics is WRONG; a limited quantity
THAT CAN ALWAYS BE SPECULATED UPON poses as the monopoly money,
backed by what? WHAT BACKS GOLD? The labor to pull it out of the
ground? Paid for by what? Taken originally by SLAVES who were paid
nothing? You can figure it out yourselves. It's been going on for
hundreds nay thousands of years. Precious metals are what they are,
but they are not the only real money as some fools assert, nor would
returning to them as a basis for credit solve anything. Producers
would actually suffer for want of the ability to sell their extra
production. But we'll get to that as Brown does.
His
second sentence deserves a response from this blog's perspective too.
What would that be? We don't care about THEIR money or THEIR
institutions! Let the “bastards” do what the “bastards”
will do. It's THEIR money. We need our own. In any event, neither
our country nor our possessions are automatically up for sale in
THEIR money just because THEY say so, or this is an out and out
tyranny, as it really is being revealed to be daily. Would THEY take
by FORCE or have others do it? We'll see, but from this blog's
perspective, we really don't care. We have spent far too much time
waiting on THEM and THEIR political solutions to do what we should
have been doing all along. This blog's proposal clearly makes that a
better possibility moving forward.
And
oh yes, we have handled all of the concerns this conversation brings
forth. But remember one thing, the economic music stops anytime one
says either, “I'm sorry, but I have no further money to pay you,”
or “I'm sorry, but I cannot take your money.”
The
FACT of Brown's last sentence in [1] is asserted by this blog in many
places and again, that's none of our business, because we have always
had the right and responsibility given us by our 1st
Amendment NOT to deal with any of THEM. Who are THEY again?
Globalists, bankers, elitists, technocrats, satanists, pederasts and
worse, scribes (lawyers, academics, media, writers, etc.) and
Pharisees (politicians and those who belong to political
organizations). That's who THEY are. It's THEIR money, not yours or
mine. There is no twisting reality. You can't do anything about
THEM. But together we can do something for ourselves and for
generations to come.
Taken together [2] in Brown's remarks asserts that Americans are doomed due to their stupidity, that there is some nostalgia for that which never was that motivates a lot of people, that a monetary system was possible without banks and without gold. One reason some of the links appear here on this blog, is for those who read and are lucky enough to find them, for those who want to know more to further their education or manage to get a real education after trying THEIRS for most of their lives.
As
for banks and gold, we have this to say. Banks and gold are THEIRS
not ours. Our proposal has nodes of accounting called exchanges
(independent exchanges or IE's) where the accounting takes place. No
money is possible without accounting. It was the reliability of
the accounting that made the human invention we know as money
possible. Money is not just its tokens. Exchanges are not banks in
that none of them will ever lend any money.
Finance, as my father said, is being able to buy what you can't afford. We allow finance businesses to become B members as long as they abide by our rules. We disallow fractional reserve lending (one has to actually have the money before one can lend it) and compounding of interest (we disallow the taking of interest as rent for money out of money that has never been created / issued) and demand that all rent for money be paid up front out of already existing money.
Do any of you get why this is important? We do it this way in order to defeat usury. One may pay for the rent of money, but one does not pay for it out of uncreated money that must be scammed from all who use it. We put an end to stealing the rent for money. We make it an up front cost that must be paid first out of existing money.
Notice we said nothing about setting lending rates or anything like that. That's for a real free market to determine: most would probably pay 10% rent for money over a relatively short period of time, but begin to balk at 15% or 20%. But perhaps 5% is more likely for shorter periods and larger purchases. It's all about free markets at that point. Real competition will tend to decrease rates.
Finance, as my father said, is being able to buy what you can't afford. We allow finance businesses to become B members as long as they abide by our rules. We disallow fractional reserve lending (one has to actually have the money before one can lend it) and compounding of interest (we disallow the taking of interest as rent for money out of money that has never been created / issued) and demand that all rent for money be paid up front out of already existing money.
Do any of you get why this is important? We do it this way in order to defeat usury. One may pay for the rent of money, but one does not pay for it out of uncreated money that must be scammed from all who use it. We put an end to stealing the rent for money. We make it an up front cost that must be paid first out of existing money.
Notice we said nothing about setting lending rates or anything like that. That's for a real free market to determine: most would probably pay 10% rent for money over a relatively short period of time, but begin to balk at 15% or 20%. But perhaps 5% is more likely for shorter periods and larger purchases. It's all about free markets at that point. Real competition will tend to decrease rates.
Our
attitude to gold is that we will use it as a basic trading mechanism
to value our money in terms of THEIRS and we will ultimately not
accept anything but precious metals, on our terms not THEIRS,
for all exchanges of THEIR money for ours.
If our A members bring in dollars for Valuns, those dollars are immediately used by the exchange to buy gold (or silver) and all the precious metals belong to the exchange for payment of THEIR taxes etc. in THEIR money (pay unto Caesar that which is Caesar's). By this process, as more of THEIR money flocks to ours, we expect our exchanges to own more gold and silver than anyone else and in so doing keep more of it off the market, hence helping to keep THEIR prices in THEIR commodities based money high. But that's a secondary consideration.
If our A members bring in dollars for Valuns, those dollars are immediately used by the exchange to buy gold (or silver) and all the precious metals belong to the exchange for payment of THEIR taxes etc. in THEIR money (pay unto Caesar that which is Caesar's). By this process, as more of THEIR money flocks to ours, we expect our exchanges to own more gold and silver than anyone else and in so doing keep more of it off the market, hence helping to keep THEIR prices in THEIR commodities based money high. But that's a secondary consideration.
Do
we care? Let's put it this way and we will repeat this refrain often
so more get it. The purpose of a unit of exchange is that it
preserves enough faith and trust in the accounting and in its
exchange with all of THEIR money (until THEIRS is no more) to
preserve purchasing power within the range of those using it; sales
made, savings accumulated, trading (barter) contracts made and
honored etc. We can guarantee that the proposed international
standard value unit or Valun will never fall below $2.16 and never
rise above $4.32. I doubt very much whether ANY other proposition
posing as money can make a similar claim.
All
of Brown's [3] can be summarized as follows; we cannot do anything
to amend or correct anything THEY have done or are doing, but we
certainly can begin to go about our own affairs using our own natural
law extension of ourselves; the money we issue, directly as a
component of our innate will. In our proposal, each A member is
automatically recognized to issue V200 (200 Valuns, or on 9/28/18
with V1 = $2.84, comparable to $568). We will need thousands of
people, millions of people around the world to make this happen.
Brown's
[4] is knowledge vs. belief. Belief is acceptance without proof.
How much do we all take for granted without knowing how it works or
understanding much about it? Think about it. None of us can
possibly know everything there is to know, so information is
scattered among us. How much is this "taking it for granted" attitude
very true about ALL the issues concerning the money we use? Have many of you ever thought
that the money you use doesn't really belong to you and considered
those implications? On the paper tokens, it always names some bank
and usually identifies the token as a note, which is a short term
debt. We're sorry to inform you but as long as you hold those debt
instruments, you are liable to return them ultimately to the bank
that issued them. Hence, all the gassing one hears about “our tax
dollars,” etc. is beside the point: it's all THEIR money, stupid!
So where does Brown's recognition of Americans' stupidity really
begin and end? With what we carry around in our wallets.
Our
solution to THEIR cash would be the V-Check, an open circulating
check on the cash account of the local exchange. Some A member
deposited Valuns into that account and got his V-Checks accordingly
and no fee was charged him for the transaction, because we want to
encourage the use of our paper money.
Brown's
[5] summarizes what we think of those advocating a return to a “gold
backed” money supply, a recipe for the end to social mobility and
the repression of the human race not part of the so called ruling
elites. But we have already stated what we'll do with THEIR gold
(and silver) and so then with what do we “back” our money? We
back it with our labor and with our will. Only through work should
new money enter a system, but we will allow those we deem to have
become impecunious (penniless, poor, impoverished, indigent,
insolvent, hard up, poverty-stricken, needy, destitute; in straitened
circumstances, unable to make ends meet; informal(flat) broke,
strapped (for cash); formal penurious "she left _____ to
escape the solicitations of her impecunious relatives") among
our A members to issue their own money backed by their will, the
amounts to be determined by local exchanges based on IVES guidelines.
Work we defined as time taken out of the rest of your life
to earn barter in money terms. Our definition of will includes
the inalienable right to issue money in turn for a certain
subsistence beneath which none of our members need fall.
Who
makes the most money in such a system? The most productive do, at no
expense to the poor because the poor must spend all the money they
have and are not in a position to save anything from one month to the
next as the better positioned would normally do.
Now
before moving forward, we are aware that there is a growing sentiment
that THEIR money, for any number of objections, will ultimately just
simply not do and so various schemes have been put forth to solve
this problem leading to a number of cryptocurrencies which ALL fall
under THEIR commodities based money systems and since none of us
issued any of it, these are just more of THEIR money. The FACT is
that no internet based solution to money is workable or even
desirable, as most people in the world still do not use the internet
and more never will as they find out more about THEIR system,
including the internet, which for the foreseeable future is also
THEIRS, not ours.
So
now, on with further discussion:
Knear:
Gold has been coveted forever. On the other
hand, you can't eat it.
Brown:
Can't DO MUCH of anything with it in fact. It's
an excellent electrical conductor and has found applications for
minute quantities in high end electronics. Corrosion proof but also
too soft to be used as a protective coating where chromium and nickel
are rock hard. Can't imagine much i could do with it except casting
it into bullets, it is denser than lead and would work well for that.
Remember the Swiss Family Robinson ? That was the ONLY PRACTICAL
APPLICATION they found for the KING'S RANSOM.
We
are talking about implementing SUSTAINABLE FUNCTION here, not FRAUD
and FAIRY TALES. Gold is a UNICORN FART. It's only value is based on
BELIEF.
Belief
again is acceptance without proof. Proof of what? Will most people
take gold in barter for things? In some parts of the world, they
still might. But those taking it will certainly know what the actual
price of it is in other “national” or “supranational”
currencies before engaging in the transaction. Who determines those
prices? That's right, Brown knows; some people nobody knows who hang
out in London or New York. The FACTS are that all precious metals
are controlled by THEM not you or I, so we have no idea from one day
to the next what THEY will decide THEIR metal is worth in the rest of
THEIR money.
In
our proposal, all we did was make a single transaction that already
happened the basis for all our money. We simply take the present
value of that transaction and we have what our unit of exchange is
worth in THEIRS. Right now (9/29/18) V1 = $2.84 which is 32% above
its inception.
Council:
Throughout history gold was mostly used for
decoration of body and other things...It really is not that useful on
its own... Diamonds' value were mostly created by making them appear
rare, which they are not and never were...Interesting, the things
touted as " most precious" are products of mind fucking.
Brown to Council: Hehehe sister yup and
they can be very useful due to their hardness. I buy good sized
diamonds from my industrial suppliers for a few dollars and use them
for sharpening grind stones in the shop.
Council:
Most people don't realize that diamonds as
status/love engagement rings is a relatively new thing...It was
created though marketing campaigns around the 20-40s to make money
for the DeBeers...and the enforced limitations were to make them
valuable...otherwise their known abundance would have made them
practically worthless...
Hargrove:
You can eat gold, you poop gold when you do.
Brown
to Council: Yup,
well familiar with the SCAM, in fact their base is the most common
substance on earth, CARBON.
Knear:
Wonder if there is any gold in Fort Knox? Live
across the river about ten miles.
Council: Nah,
I doubt it...
Knear
to Council: I think, back in the 70's, a
documentary was made. Cameras were allowed in the gold vaults. Don't
think they have since.
Council:
I believe they have off shored all the
gold...Further, I believe that our museums have fake art...
Basically, Amerikkka has been written off...The people running the
show are globalists... No allegiance
to any piece of dirt on this planet...
… except I guarantee you,
THEY will claim to have a right to own it all.
Hernandez:
Gold is the key. That's a way to destroy the
debt slavery we are in.
Elliot:
NO, IT IS GOOD PEOPLE JUST GOING ALONG WITH ALL
THEM MENTALLY ILL SLAVES VOTING FOR NEWER NICER MASTERS.
Alright,
now just watch and see if those of you who have been reading this
blog a long time can figure out where Brown runs off the tracks.
We'll point it out of course, but we'll probably have to break into
the conversation here a bit..
Brown
to Hernandez: Elliot NAILED IT. GOLD
is what CREATED this PRIVATE DEBT SLAVERY SYSTEM in the FIRST PLACE,
neither is it the FOUNDATION for a FUNCTIONING ECONOMY.
Let's
stop something dead in its tracks before it gets started, shall we?
Brown refers to the present order as a PRIVATE
DEBT SLAVERY SYSTEM. Would a “public” debt slavery system
be any better? We have taxes now, don't we? That's for paying the
largest creators of public debt back so that at least some of the
money they issued is actually “backed.” You see, E. C. Riegel
made the paramount observation that in each and every transaction,
the “backing” for all money is not in its intrinsic value, but in
what that money buys. So all arguments in favor of money holding
some intrinsic value are … erroneous, misleading, irrelevant, etc.
and so is all the economic theory associated with such ideas going
back hundreds of years. No, Mr. Brown, the issue here is not public
vs. private. Our effort MUST be private as otherwise we're engaged in telling someone how to drive THEIR car from the back seat. We
don't want THEIR car, we want our own private cars. So here, Brown
launches into his most erroneous argument:
You
have to back the system of trade with the full volume of USEFUL
WEALTH it is needed to trade for so it can be balanced at a 1:1 ratio
to function for that.
No sir!
There is no way, short of some bumbling bureaucracy, that we do not
want interfering with us, to make this happen. Our members earn
money and issue it against their work or their will. Goods and
services are initially valued in THEIR money on THEIR terms until it
is obvious that Valuns buy more than THEIR money does in which case
prices in Valuns will tend to fall to where they will trade hands.
Simple as that!
We said that today's hypothetical Valun = $2.84 which could buy you a gallon of gas or a quart of milk based on comparable prices in dollars. But eventually, after gold spikes again and the Valun hits a new inception point, Valuns would buy more simply because it takes more of THEIR money to buy one.
Again, the ideas put forth by Brown betray his adherence to a commodities based system which can have plenty of speculators determining prices based on gambling on commodities futures prices. Some of this might be attempted with Valuns, but it is unlikely, because most speculators have money available to them that does not come from honest work. We do not care for or want any of that in our system. Understood? Prices will seek their own levels based on factors like freshness, quality, availability, etc. and nothing else.
We said that today's hypothetical Valun = $2.84 which could buy you a gallon of gas or a quart of milk based on comparable prices in dollars. But eventually, after gold spikes again and the Valun hits a new inception point, Valuns would buy more simply because it takes more of THEIR money to buy one.
Again, the ideas put forth by Brown betray his adherence to a commodities based system which can have plenty of speculators determining prices based on gambling on commodities futures prices. Some of this might be attempted with Valuns, but it is unlikely, because most speculators have money available to them that does not come from honest work. We do not care for or want any of that in our system. Understood? Prices will seek their own levels based on factors like freshness, quality, availability, etc. and nothing else.
Under any and
all other circumstances TRADE is REGULATED by MONEY instead of the
other way around and there can be no FREE ECONOMY. Where is the GOLD
going to COME FROM ?. From the ROTHSCHILD'S VAULTS under London of
course. THIS IS A BANKERS WET DREAM at this point and YOU ARE BEING
SCAMMED.
Brown
is again castigating the “gold backed” system but just suggested
another even worse choice to replace it.
As
stated, I'll give you $20.00 worth of work in my shop for a POUND of
GOLD, The Aztecs had an abundance of GOLD. They made it into
ORNAMENTS and used beans and strips of cotton for money which could
be GROWN or WOVEN to MEET THE DEMANDS of TRADE.
This
will give you an idea of what most of us are recognizing and the
FUNCTION which needs to be established in order to facilitate FREE
and NATURAL HUMAN PROGRESS according to our ABILITY to CREATE IT.
Republicans / capitalists will call it SOCIALISM, Liberals /
socialists will call it FASCISM, THE ARITHMETIC ACTUALLY WORKS. THEY
CANNOT ALLOW THINGS TO WORK as this would leave them NOTHING to VOTE
ON, FIGHT OVER, or ARGUE ABOUT.
At
this point we applaud Brown for his perceptions! Brown continues:
APPLICATION
of NATURAL LAW:
I
can PROVE to a Socialist that we can eliminate all poverty and
hardship across the board by implementing a functioning 100 % TAX
FREE economy securing IN FULL the right of every creator to trade and
keep the full benefit of their own creation and i can PROVE to a
Capitalist that the only way to SUSTAIN the FREE and EXPONENTIAL
economic growth and technological development that a FREE and
FUNCTIONING ECONOMY should exist to FACILITATE is to GIVE PEOPLE the
PURCHASING POWER to OBTAIN IT.
Yes,
very well then. Let's get started. We can do this if we know what
we're doing and why and we certainly do not need anything from any of
THEM or from THEIR “best credit risk” customers, the governments.
We've waited long enough. We'll do it ourselves! As for taxes, we
can't do anything about them because it's THEIR money. Our proposal
is not a tax dodge, like a non-profit foundation, nor is it a money
laundry, like all cryptocurrencies. We will pay our taxes in THEIR
money while building our own economies ourselves. BTW Mr. Brown, all
uses of the word “sustainable” or “sustainability” are THEIR
words for keeping everyone in their place, etc. So we laugh at
anyone using them in any serious conversation from now on. Ok? Same
for all talk of “the masses.” No! We are the people, not “the
masses,” a demeaning term to indicate just what THEY have always
thought of us. We can talk about “sustainable” after seeing the
many videos out there about abandanded properties. These, as we have
indicated elsewhere, are evidence of the death of money, vast amounts
of it, none of which shall ever return. What is the worth of any of
these abandoned properties? Whatever someone is willing to put into
them in new money to bring them into productive use. What possible
productive use does a huge abandoned mansion have? Probably none,
unless you can turn it into some kind of hotel. What does that
require? More money. So why does anyone consider such things as
wealth? Because again, we have been misled.
THEY would have
us accept that wealth is just stuff. People with lots of stuff are
said to be wealthy. But they may only be rich; they have a lot of
money. Weath is not wealth to us unless it produces an income over
and above it's initial cost of procurement. Wealth is that capable
of providing an income or it isn't wealth, just stuff. Yes, everyone
has some innate wealth (some ability worth paying for) and can
acquire more through honest effort and the good will of one's trading
community than begging it from some state in money that isn't even
ours. But, we're speaking of our proposal here, not THEIR obvious
flawed and irreparable system.
To
break this down to it's simplest level. IF we expect to sustain
any form of NEW economic growth and technological development
then we have to give ourselves the ability to PUT NEW MONEY IN FOR
FREE in order to enable it's TRADE as opposed to SUCKING
FRAUDULENT BANK DEBT OUT in INTEREST, FINES and TAXES facilitating
the incremental collapse we've been experiencing all our lives
instead. Currently the INTEREST paid to PRIVATE BANKS who issue the
FRAUDULENT DEBT far exceeds the sum total of ALL FINES and TAXES as
well, they only EXIST for ONE REASON. People need to GET THIS.
Freedom gives freely, slavery steals.
What
did we already say above? All A members automatically get V200 FREE.
Now, we are asking each member to pay V1 a year in dues in local
“national” money that would go into an account in one of THEIR
banks for a “sinking fund” to establish the exchange. We must do
this in order to pay taxes, but it also gives us the launching pad we
need to get our institutions and infrastructure off the ground. BTW, the precious metals assets of each exchange would be held where deemed best, these still being THEIR money held for paying taxes and other expenses back to THEM.
Our
dues is a figure so small that everyone can somehow raise it. So if
you were able to join up today, you'd pay $2.84 and maybe next year
$2.62 and as I said, a Valun can fluctuate from a low of $2.16 to a
high of $4.32 based on THEIR prices for THEIR gold and dollars. In
my last posts, I explained how this “sinking fund” would be used.
First we establish IVES (the International Valun Exchange Society)
and then we set up our exchanges. It takes 3 people to start an
exchange; each member is sponsored by the other two. Every A member
is sponsored by two A members, satisfies domicile and is above 18
years of age and that's it. Homeless people can still join as long
as they fulfill the other requirements.
As
simple a matter of balancing the simple ARITHMETIC of HONEST TRADE
against the ECONOMICS of VOLUME PRODUCTION.
No! Not necessary.
There is no form of BELIEF,
OPINION, RELIGION, THEORY or PHILOSOPHY involved in this whatsoever
and this involves nothing more than simple RECOGNITION of what is
NECESSARY in order to MAKE THINGS WORK. Those that GET IT are no
longer Socialists or Capitalists, Liberals or Conservatives. They are
USING THEIR BRAINS as opposed to BELIEVING in SOMEONE ELSE'S
BULLSHIT. I've pulled as many former Liberals behind this as former
Conservatives, they actually seem to GET IT quicker in most cases.
A
FREE ECONOMY = Money, existing as a PUBLIC UTILITY, which can be
FREELY REGULATED to meet the RANDOM DEMANDS OF TRADE that we FREELY
and INDEPENDENTLY CREATE, ON PURPOSE and ALL THE TIME.
No!
We don't need any state or government involvement at all. A public
utility? You see how well those work for the privileged few, don't
you? No thanks. There is no way forward that involves anything
“public” or “regulated” that can ever be free (not having to
ask anyone's permission). This means that our efforts must be owned
by us as private members in an entirely private and hence engaged in
by voluntary contract with all other private members.
Under
any and all other circumstances TRADE ends up being REGULATED by
MONEY or POLITICAL POWER and there can be no FREE ECONOMY. Money can
either function as a PUBLIC MEANS OF TRADE or a PRIVATE MEANS OF
THEFT. IT CAN'T DO BOTH and we currently have NO SUCH THING AS MONEY.
Only FRAUDULENT COUNTERFEIT PRIVATE BANK DEBT pretending to BE SO.
No!
Fraudulent or not, illegitimate or not, as long as trade (barter) is
engaged in, that which splits the barter in the transactions IS
money. Let's not get completely off the tracks here. We have a
system where a central bank, owned by private individuals, lends out
of nothing to “public” institutions, all the money that we use,
which is taxed back to pay the interst on the principal borrowed
first (else the bankers themselves would have no money now, would
they?) and then maybe after a long time the principal borrowed is
paid back. But then what? These bankers have to keep the debt Ponzi
scheme going, else they do what? They fail! So it is thus easy to
see that a lot of foreign policy having to do with taking over other
countries and forcing them into this kind of banker debt, drives most
wars! We do not want any of this. THEIR system starts from the
wrong end of society entirely. We start with people themselves and
monetize them rather than dealing with any extraneous “public”
institutions. To hell with THEM! Understood yet?
GOLD
is not money either, it is a COMMODITY and i'll give someone $ 20.00
worth of work in my shop for a POUND of it which is about what it's
worth for it's useful properties balanced against it's so called
scarcity. Any value beyond this is FRAUD so it can be used as a MEANS
OF THEFT. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with any BULLSHIT
POLITICAL or ECONOMIC RELIGION / PHILOSOPHY nor is this contingent on
anyone;s idiotic BELIEFS or OPINIONS, this is a simple statement of
FACT which must be RECOGNIZED in order to FACILITATE any form of
NATURAL LIBERTY which is necessary to facilitate any form of FREE and
NATURAL HUMAN PROGRESS, which EVERY BULLSHIT POLITICAL or ECONOMIC
RELIGION / THEORY / PHILOSOPHY exist to PREVENT in order to sustain
POWER for a bunch of CRIMINAL PARASITES whom in all of human history
have CREATED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Here
here, Brown! He has a few things off, but he will come around,
because he has most of the rest already.
This
is what's coming into play here, what those few who are actually
willing to THINK are finally figuring out, is that they have nothing
to VOTE ON, FIGHT OVER or ARGUE ABOUT, simply to USE OUR BRAINS to
MAKE THINGS WORK. Meanwhile there are those who just LOVE TO FIGHT.
You're
so right and mostly about the wrong things or the wrong people. Yes,
some people do deserve our fight, but not those who readily come to
mind.
"Those
who will not use their brains are no better off than those who have
no brains". A statement from the DEMON ROTHSCHILD that i have
used many times, the same DEMON ROTHSCHILD who CREATED their
COMPETING ECONOMIC and POLITICAL RELIGIONS / THEORIES / PHILOSOPHIES.
He was RUBBING THEIR NOSES in their own STUPIDITY but still they
remain TOO STUPID TO GET IT because they LOVE TO FIGHT.
Imagine,
certain of THEM knew a few hundred years back, “Those Americans
sure love to fight. Perhaps we should BUY them and set them up as
our army!” Well, that's a good explanation of foreign policy since
the founding of the Federal Reserve in 1913.
4/3
pi (R cubed) is an EXPRESSION of NATURAL LAW. It will give you the
internal volume of a sphere. The result will always be the same for
any sphere of any given diameter. It is not SUBJECT to anyone's
BELIEFS, OPINIONS, RELIGIONS, THEORIES or PHILOSOPHIES and it
likewise leaves NOTHING to VOTE ON, FIGHT OVER or ARGUE ABOUT.
Neither is there any form of LOGIC which can establish a CRIME
without some form of TANGIBLE and MEASURABLE HARM, nor any form of
LOGIC which can secure any ENTITLEMENT to PROFIT with NO CREATION
OF WEALTH of which the FULL VOLUME of the POLITICAL and ECONOMIC
INSANITY we are currently SUBJECT TO exist in VIOLATION which is WHY
NOTHING WORKS.
Natural
law begins with “do no harm.” It is based on three things;
life, liberty and property. These are our
natural human rights; we have the right to live, the right to liberty
and the right to have and to dispense with property.
Most
of us who came up through THEIR schools, where we were told
what to think rather than taught how to think (how many even know
what the trivium is?), so we come to think that mere stuff is wealth
and that “honest” money should have some “intrinsic” value
(determined by whom?) and that “civil law” (and civil rights) are
as good if not better than natural rights and natural law. Yeah,
well we've all been duped and it was on purpose.
On
closer examination, it is revealed that the entire process was
intended to hide from the general public all the ways and means that
certain “special” people have literally looted the rest of
society for hundreds of years. Do we want any of it back? Do we
care? Would you like one of THEIR abandoned mansions? No. We want
nothing of THEIRS ultimately. We want our own and yes we can and
shall have it too.
This
is WHY Jefferson and Franklin secured NATURAL LAW as the FOUNDATION
of this Republic when they wrote the Declaration of Independence and
it's ABOUT FUCKING TIME that this was IMPLEMENTED and the American
Revolution actually WON, so that we can MAKE THINGS WORK ON PURPOSE.
WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS WORK.
Hernandez to Brown: I
understand where you're coming from. I'm looking from another angle.
Right now the Petro dollar is based on the American currency. The
American currency is worthless (except for it being backed by the US
military might.) It is debt, an IOU. lent at interest. It is the
source of our slavery. In the middle east there have been a few
attempts to base the petrodollar on gold.
World
changing !!!!!
If
that where to happen it would undermine the global banking cartel.
The American currency has no gold backing it. It would lose a great
amount of perceived value.
Yes,
barter!
Hernandez
mentions barter compared to money. We say that barter never goes
away, it's just facilitated by money to split the barter and spread
it among a wider range of traders. Barter never goes away. And all
money is evidence of open barter transactions that have not yet been
closed. This means that all money is evidence of debt. THAT's
not the question, it is to whom is that debt owed. These are all
manifestations of what's under ALL monetary systems; accounting! You
can't have money without accounting and without money life
becomes for most “nasty, brutish and short.” So you can forget
about dispensing with money in some form.
Brown
to Hernandez: YES this is IT, the ONLY SOUND
BACKING for a system of TRADE is EXACTLY the full volume of wealth
which is available for BARTER re: balancing at a 1:1 ratio to
function for that and eliminating PROFIT from the system so that
BALANCE can be maintained.
No!
Not necessary. I earn my Valuns as I would dollars. If I encounter
a member willing to take a V1 V-Check for what we agree is worth a
Valun, then whatever I buy with my Valun backs that Valun! Period!
We do not need any further form of price manipulation from anybody,
ever. The only people interested in “balancing” as you call it,
are speculators who make money on money without work (capitalism).
To hell with THEM!
Technically
since the exchanges are taking place according to what each party
deems them to be worth in relation to their own contribution we could
be said to have eliminated the concept of PROFIT from the system
altogether except for that i am benefiting from someone else's
creation and they from mine.
Excuse
me, Mr. Brown, but elimination of “profit” as a motive, making
more money from a business than you spent setting it up, would cause
everything to shut down almost immediately. In order to keep things
going, one must take back enough to replace what was sold plus some
profit to cover overhead expenses and enough for savings, else the
equity of the business is … unsustainable. The issue is again not
profit, but unearned profit; absentee owners getting a piece of the
pie whether they actually participated in running the business or
not. These are what “public” stock corporations are and this is
why they are not to be permoitted membership in our monetary system.
We do not seek to reward those who don't contribute or to offer more
opportunities for people to passively earn without working.
Re;
middle east, yes a few went halfway with gold and this would have
been for several reasons, Abrahamic Religions all seem to BELIEVE IN
IT and i don't think these countries have the full resources
necessary to sustain fully independent economies and needed something
that was recognized by the IMF for international trade.
Symonds
(quoting someone): “I was unable to decipher
most of what you wrote down.... and it was tooo long to hold my
attention very much... I prefer to just think about Trump and how he
is savin us... because talkin ta you gets french fry grease on my
obama fone ... my momma says Q is gonna fix all this stuff and my
momma is always right.... dont fuck with my momma... she will fuck
you up like a cathlick boy tied up in a confeshin closet .... I gotta
go now... momma is waiting fer me outside on da bench"
Brown: Hahahahahaha ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS. Best laugh i've had in awhile. Thanks brother. You mimic them PERFECTLY. :)
Brown: Hahahahahaha ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS. Best laugh i've had in awhile. Thanks brother. You mimic them PERFECTLY. :)
Symonds:
It is not hard , sir. These bastards are
stumbling around everywhere... i am surrounded by em.. (sigh) ... I
just want to be relocated to Easter Island for a year or 2 and then
drop dead.
Brown to Symonds:
LOL were surrounded here as well. BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES who have NEVER
had a single INDEPENDENT THOUGHT in their entire lives. Were it not
for my lovely wife and the contacts we have on here, i could go
decades between finding someone with whom i could have a simple
INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION. There was one other family here but they
were forced to move to town for health reasons. We have been missing
them.
McGrady: Oh ya! No doubt about that. They are more hopeful then any Reagan, Clinton, GW, Obama mindless zombie sheople ever was. They think, they have a genuine political savior. Trump will save them. Because, he really is, as dumb as us, so he wants us to have a good life too. We're in a big club, and very happy that. As the ship nears the iceberg!
Brown:
LOL Mencken described it as the final /
terminal evolution of DEMOCRACY, that GLORIOUS DAY when the people
finally ELECT a PRESIDENT who is JUST LIKE THEM, Just as IGNORANT,
just as STUPID and just as MORALLY BANKRUPT.
McGrady:
Oops! Another Rothschild, British Crown,
Vatican installed actor exposed. So, no political, religious saviors.
You're on your own.
Birds of a feather, flock together.
Brown: They
have what he SAYS and then they have what he DOES. They are willing
to DENY the LATTER in order to BELIEVE the FORMER. It simply does not
get any more STUPID and GULLIBLE that just that.
Palmer: Q messages / interpreters are now encouraging
the public to accept Trump as dictator with full military powers by
saying he will use these only against the "swamp"...
I
am not the swamp...
So
why am I repeatedly banned from Facebook for a month at a time...
when
I post anything truthful about Israel/ Trump/ history/ the war of the
corrupt against mankind?...
Trump
recently signed an executive order to deny access to our bank
accounts if his "spies" i.e., Israel reports that we
publish truth to a worldwide audience via social media...
Does
this scare me?...
Of
course...
He
has signed our death warrant...
Or
at least made life very difficult...
My
new ATM card is chipped...
It
worked for 1 week...
Yesterday
I was unable to withdraw from my bank...
Q
interpreters / followers are getting more verbal about their desire
to "torture"/ "punish" the "swamp" in
Guantanamo...
"Patriots"
used to be vocal about our "unalienable rights"...
Now
these same mouth pieces are justifying martial rule...
Our
constitution was suspended in 1872..
We
are under martial law...
We
must not consent...
Brown: NAILING
IT sister. THANK YOU
Labrock:
All sides just want their boots on people's necks forcing them to
their own ideological dictates and only get their panties in a twist
when it's not theirs.
Brown:
Brother THIS IS ALL THEY UNDERSTAND, always a
competition over WHO'S RIGHTS they are going to VIOLATE and they've
kept VIOLATING back and forth until there are NO RIGHTS LEFT TO
VIOLATE. This is what VOTING / POLITICS is ALL ABOUT.
THEY
NEED TO BE GONE.
Sirotak:
They're beyond hopeless, if they even want to
believe that the likes of Donald Trump will save them!
Palmer:
Being able to "twist" everything...
They
call it "cunning"...
I
call it "evil"...
Spies:
People have lost their minds, they're to the
point of no return, where I give up even trying to explain to them
why they are wrong. The Grand Illusion is easy to uncover if you want
to. Most are too lazy to question the norm or too embarrassed that
they won't fit in with the heard. Me, I don't mind not one bit,
because I have been enlightened and seek to know the truth rather
then following the majority.
Brown:
Brother yup, A FEW are recognizing the means
and necessity of FIXING THIS SHIT, maybe 2%, the majority are VERY
STUPID but every single ounce of human progress has always been
accomplished by the VERY FEW.
Ever
heard of a small book called Listen Little Man by Wilhelm
Reich? It's a must read. Brown continues ...
At
this point it seems we have some hope of the majority simply
ANNIHILATING THEMSELVES and getting OUT OF OUR WAY which would make
things EASY provided we can preserve our own.
It
will be up to us anyway. The time for waiting around for someone to
do it for us is NOT going to work! There never was nor ever will be
any political solution, because it is all THEIRS not ours. Do not
accept someone telling you that somehow we the “citizens” of any
“republic,” or “democracy” or whatever have any “rights”
etc. over and beyond any THEY deign to grant us.
Williams:
The level of stupidity these zombies are on is
epic.
Brown:
My wife's CHICKENS are INTELLECTUAL GIANTS by
comparison.
(my
original comment) Those who have paid any attention to anything I've
said over the years know what I think. Gold and silver are always
THEIR money, NOT yours or mine. Likewise, no cryptocurrency can
possibly serve because ALL of them are just more of THEIR money. So
we need our own money and here is the proposal: RIGHT HERE ON THIS
BLOG. I hope that Mr. Brown will appreciate the use of his remarks
in a future post on the linked blog. It's not too far off when we can
RENOUNCE all THEIR crooked politics (believe me, I know both sides)
and build an economy and wealth of our own.
Did anyone notice
as the conversation came to an end, how much energy was wasted casting useless aspersions concerning other
people's stupidity? A lot of people seem to believe that a
lot of you out there are stupid. Stupid for not agreeing with their
politics? Let's hope not, because that sort of thing plays right
into THEIR game and serves no constructive purpose.
What is
the first law among civilized humans adapting natural law to their
own circumstances? Do no harm! After that it's LIFE, LIBERTY
and PROPERTY. Those who have SOLD YOU OUT (Lefties) or CONNED YOU
INTO A NOSTALGIC DREAM THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF FULFILLING EVER
(Righties) can STOP FIGHTING! It's just what THEY want. It's time
to work out our own money and the technical infrastructure to bring
it about. Still waiting to hear from more of you. Money IS the most
important issue underneath all other issues.
Best.
David
Burton
dpbmss@mail.com
[9/30/18: Some recent conversations:
Universal income is inevitable, when the machines do all the work who do you think will be earning an income? The problem is always going to be implantation. The first people to get it needs to be the retired...... Then the disabled......Then people who are in fact unemployable . This will end poverty traps....more will find useful positions.
We told you what the monopoly use of THEIR money would turn to; implantation is taking THEIR chip! THIS IS THE LAST BEAST EMPIRE known as Mystery Babylon (before 1815 was Napoleon, he who would rule for a little while and before that was the thousand years of the Holy Roman Empire, the extension from the wounded head that was healed of the old Roman Empire before it, etc. etc.). Being chipped like an animal is taking the mark of that beast. We have noted The Babylonian Woe by David Astle, a difficult but relevant read.
Our proposal could be a universal income too and without chipping. I believe that a yearly price of under $3 to obtain an initial nearly $600 of purchasing power is a pretty good deal. We further guarantee that our poor members will be able to issue Valuns to provide a subsistence.
By the same token, Machines should do jobs that people shouldn't do. We've all been in the job we feel "Is for a robot" now that is exactly what is going to happen. Maybe people will be relieved of repetitive and stressful positions that AI machines can do and open up life and new possibilities for humanity. Society will need to find new and innovative ways to spend their time and create value and wages.
What is never considered, because we are so easily impressed by people in suits and ties with fancy degrees, etc. is that after a point in production is reached, all this automation is actually counter-productive, all attempting to beat the diminishing returns to scale law and achieve some monopoly position to further the take. THAT is the kind of mad profiteering that Brown complains of. Currently, people whose work is making money on money without producing a thing, call all the shots. We have pointed out that 93% of all the financial assets in the world belong to less than 1% of the population. Dependency has grown to ridiculous proportions already. And then THEY are promising to bring us “social scoring”.
Check out what's happening in Italy right now and listen here to what these Canadians say about our present situation.
That's the step right before they kill us. They will not be paying us to sit around. So you really cant see they are bastards? They will try to depopulate by hook or crook or war and when they get our numbers whittled down they will send the drones. You see we are polluting the planet with the things THEY manufacture. They need to dump us and when we surrender our jobs to robots THEY WILL KILL US.
Another reason we shouldn't be depending on THEIR money. We know what THEY intend because THEY have written what THEY intend. THEY really want most of you dead. So what do you have to lose? Look at our proposal. We should all be doing this. I wait to hear from you.]
[10/7/18: Mr. Brown came back with a lengthy response
[9/30/18: Some recent conversations:
Universal income is inevitable, when the machines do all the work who do you think will be earning an income? The problem is always going to be implantation. The first people to get it needs to be the retired...... Then the disabled......Then people who are in fact unemployable . This will end poverty traps....more will find useful positions.
We told you what the monopoly use of THEIR money would turn to; implantation is taking THEIR chip! THIS IS THE LAST BEAST EMPIRE known as Mystery Babylon (before 1815 was Napoleon, he who would rule for a little while and before that was the thousand years of the Holy Roman Empire, the extension from the wounded head that was healed of the old Roman Empire before it, etc. etc.). Being chipped like an animal is taking the mark of that beast. We have noted The Babylonian Woe by David Astle, a difficult but relevant read.
Our proposal could be a universal income too and without chipping. I believe that a yearly price of under $3 to obtain an initial nearly $600 of purchasing power is a pretty good deal. We further guarantee that our poor members will be able to issue Valuns to provide a subsistence.
By the same token, Machines should do jobs that people shouldn't do. We've all been in the job we feel "Is for a robot" now that is exactly what is going to happen. Maybe people will be relieved of repetitive and stressful positions that AI machines can do and open up life and new possibilities for humanity. Society will need to find new and innovative ways to spend their time and create value and wages.
What is never considered, because we are so easily impressed by people in suits and ties with fancy degrees, etc. is that after a point in production is reached, all this automation is actually counter-productive, all attempting to beat the diminishing returns to scale law and achieve some monopoly position to further the take. THAT is the kind of mad profiteering that Brown complains of. Currently, people whose work is making money on money without producing a thing, call all the shots. We have pointed out that 93% of all the financial assets in the world belong to less than 1% of the population. Dependency has grown to ridiculous proportions already. And then THEY are promising to bring us “social scoring”.
Check out what's happening in Italy right now and listen here to what these Canadians say about our present situation.
That's the step right before they kill us. They will not be paying us to sit around. So you really cant see they are bastards? They will try to depopulate by hook or crook or war and when they get our numbers whittled down they will send the drones. You see we are polluting the planet with the things THEY manufacture. They need to dump us and when we surrender our jobs to robots THEY WILL KILL US.
Another reason we shouldn't be depending on THEIR money. We know what THEY intend because THEY have written what THEY intend. THEY really want most of you dead. So what do you have to lose? Look at our proposal. We should all be doing this. I wait to hear from you.]
[10/7/18: Mr. Brown came back with a lengthy response
Yeah
good analysis, critical to this is how is infinite economic growth to
be sustained by a finite currency? It can't be.
We understand this and agree. But infinite growth is not necessary unless one is running a system based on usury (the payment back of that which was never created). What will convince people to turn to this proposal? First that it is understood and that the fallacies in ALL of THEIR money and its related institutions are widely known and accepted as historical fact! We can help with the former, we can't do anything about the latter.
We understand this and agree. But infinite growth is not necessary unless one is running a system based on usury (the payment back of that which was never created). What will convince people to turn to this proposal? First that it is understood and that the fallacies in ALL of THEIR money and its related institutions are widely known and accepted as historical fact! We can help with the former, we can't do anything about the latter.
All we can keep saying is that none of it is ours and so what? So billions of people have been relying on THEIR money and THEY would seem to believe (since you make such a strong point of it) that
1) money (all money) is THEIR invention and that
2) THEY have “special” rights over all other people and HAVE THE NATURAL RIGHT TO STEAL FROM EVERYONE ELSE for the privilege of using THEIR money.
When
i create NEW WEALTH in my shop, something EXISTS which DID NOT EXIST
BEFORE.
OK, you say you create wealth. How much did it cost you? If you do not make more over cost as income directly from what you make, then what you create is just stuff. Yes, you spend time away from the rest of your life to earn money to barter for things you need in exchange for the sale of what you make. Even if the product is new, there were likely more or similar that you made previously. But taken together your product is only wealth if it provides you with an income over the cost of production, which includes utilities, insurance, TAXES, etc. Your production has to earn you income over and above all that, or it's … just a nice hobby.
OK, you say you create wealth. How much did it cost you? If you do not make more over cost as income directly from what you make, then what you create is just stuff. Yes, you spend time away from the rest of your life to earn money to barter for things you need in exchange for the sale of what you make. Even if the product is new, there were likely more or similar that you made previously. But taken together your product is only wealth if it provides you with an income over the cost of production, which includes utilities, insurance, TAXES, etc. Your production has to earn you income over and above all that, or it's … just a nice hobby.
We need to MATCH THE FUNCTIONS which you have taken into account as well. Likewise commodities are PROPERTY / ASSETS, money cannot function as PROPERTY, only a representation of REAL WEALTH / PROPERTY in order to facilitate EQUITABLE BARTER on a wide enough scale to MAKE THINGS WORK. I think we've got all of this nailed down consistently as well.
Yes, any commodity of anything can be property and accounted for as monetized assets of any business or going concern. Money is merely a yardstick of value, capable of helping us determine what the relative values of competing possible desirable goods or services are by location and availability, etc.
BTW, and I will keep hammering this one until you get it; you speak of a need to MATCH THE FUNCTIONS. Why? You can't, nor can I, nor can any group of people do what you think we need to have done. PRICES FOR ANYTHING IN THEIR MONEY ARE ALREADY SET BY GANGS OF SPECULATORS WHO WOULD RATHER EARN MONEY ON THEIR MONEY WITHOUT WORK THAN ACTUALLY WORKING HARD TO PRODUCE ANYTHING! Understood? We do not need or want any of this!
Re; establishing a measure of value, I've suggested iron in the past as opposed to gold. It's the foundation of pretty much everything we use, is consistently mined and processed according to demand as opposed to lets say agricultural products, which can be subject to weather or disease and has REAL PRACTICAL VALUE as opposed to Gold which value is again based on BELIEF.
Alright, do you want our exchanges to take iron in trade for Valuns and how much iron would you suggest we use as a basis for a Valun? We'd be taking iron in trade instead of gold or silver. Iron takes a lot more space is subject to rust and we'd have to be in the scrap iron business, which we don't want to force any exchange into, and we'd be taking more iron out of the market in exchange for our money. Nope, does not make any practical sense.
The reason to choose gold and silver is to BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME. Because if we don't, if one doesn't, then THEY will simply erect another gold backed Ponzi scheme, because really dumb people never change their ways, and we'd have lost the momentum and the competitive advantage. Make no mistake, precious metals are THEIR oldest form of money, but so far, we can hold them without as much trouble as fully being invested in THEIR banks and institutions, which solves nothing. So no, we'll stick with gold and silver, in our business processes, more of THEIR oldest forms of money will gravitate toward us and be out of circulation. BTW, THEY control the prices of iron just as well as THEY do copper, tin, rubber, etc.
The difficulty i see is implementing your system without some form of public organization, and it does indeed have to be organized on very wide scale in order to work, so either way it amounts to the same thing. Public Debt Slavery / Private Debt Slavery either way you're taking UNEARNED PROFIT and this is what renders any system unsustainable.
You didn't say anything except that to you being in debt to some government is somehow better than to some bank. Why do "public" concerns deserve any of your trust? Do you expect to be protected? What's the matter with you? Clearly the governments have no intention of protecting you or anybody from anything despite what bromides they may use to convey the opposite. THEY are liars. Why do you believe them? In fact, isn't your tirade against belief just as bad in your own case? So let's get back to earth a bit.
THEY are already taking unearned profit.
Unearned profit is what I've consistently described as capitalism on
this blog. Capitalism has NOTHING to do with free enterprise
and the two ideas are usually conflated when in fact they are
completely separate and opposed ideas. We seek to promote free PRIVATE
enterprise and not capitalism.
But Brown's concern is unearned
profit. Let's start with the rent for money. The way it is in THEIR
system is that interest is paid out of money that was never created /
issued. That's why there's never enough money in circulation to pay
off all the debts. That's also why THEIR systems routinely fail.
Instead we say that in our proposal all rent for money is paid up front out of
already existing money and that all compounding of interest is deemed
… unsustainable as well as being FRAUD and THEFT and so is
therefore unlawful under our proposal.
Public Debt Slavery = Communism, owned and created by the same PRIVATE BANKS as created and own Capitalism = Private Debt Slavery, and just different evolution's of the SAME THING.
Public Debt Slavery = Communism, owned and created by the same PRIVATE BANKS as created and own Capitalism = Private Debt Slavery, and just different evolution's of the SAME THING.
What of our
proposal, where most of the money is created / issued by our A members
while they are working earning THEIR money? We will allow up to 80%
of the value of THEIR money in ours, to be issued this way, as long
as the member understands that THEY will demand to be paid taxes on any taxable income, and that could and would come from any
dealings in any other money other than dollars, including ours.
Understood? You keep and pay THEIR money to pay whatever THEY
require (especially taxes) and we build our own parallel economy
using ours until THEIRS fails.
As long as the system functions ONLY to facilitate EQUITABLE BARTER on a wide enough scale to make things work and nothing more it will work regardless of how or by whom it is implemented.
No it wont. It must be private or it is no better than any of THEIRS. People will have to get off using the states for things never intended for states to be doing and furthermore we would all be far better served NOT to be so easily bestowing so much trust on people who as a class or group, certainly do not deserve that “special” consideration. Most of THEM could not earn a decent living if THEY had to. We may sooner or later find this out too. But of course EQUITABLE BARTER would be the ultimate goal. Even as things are, we all seek the best equitable barter for our money we possibly can.
As long as the system functions ONLY to facilitate EQUITABLE BARTER on a wide enough scale to make things work and nothing more it will work regardless of how or by whom it is implemented.
No it wont. It must be private or it is no better than any of THEIRS. People will have to get off using the states for things never intended for states to be doing and furthermore we would all be far better served NOT to be so easily bestowing so much trust on people who as a class or group, certainly do not deserve that “special” consideration. Most of THEM could not earn a decent living if THEY had to. We may sooner or later find this out too. But of course EQUITABLE BARTER would be the ultimate goal. Even as things are, we all seek the best equitable barter for our money we possibly can.
On a public level this enables the injection of new means of trade to compensate for economic growth to fund such few necessary public services such as roads (i don't want to be stopping every 10 miles to pay tolls to some private entity that is maintaining that particular stretch of road and we've had examples of people burning toll booths where that was the case LOL) without TAXES and likewise the potential to issue additional free public benefits depending on the amount of growth that the population freely and naturally creates, likewise to enable technology to develop to take the place of human drudgery as opposed to making itself useless by putting people out or work so they can no longer obtain it's benefits, hence eliminating poverty across the board as well.
Well,
let's break some of this down, OK? New money from state spending is
how I interpret injection of new means of trade. How long are you prepared to wait? Why should any
state get the first right of purchase? Don't you know far better
what you want for yourself and others than THEY do? You realize of
course that since all the money we use is THEIR (private bank) money
spent by some “public” entity, that ultimately THEY, and THEIR
criminal friends on Wall St. and elsewhere, call the shots. Whereas
if a million people adopted the Valun system along with THEIRS, then
each of those members could decide what to do with money that is
actually theirs (individual members).
As for the roads, etc. perhaps
you didn't know that highway funds are looted at every level and
great portions of roads are actually sold off to private corporations
for maintenance in excuse for tax reductions and other lookaways.
You simply cannot have a “public” entity that is not corruptible.
What about all those balances you seek to make that I suppose you assume control prices? Well, they don't. Speculators control prices, not state authorities. Want real trouble? Just mess with that and you'll have all kinds of shortages, etc. No, you keep the state out of OUR business and out of OUR money, thank-you very much. When THEIRS fails and states beg us for help, the first thing we do is hang their asses for malfeasance and then consider what really needs to be spent, because we will be paying for it in either THEIR money or ours.
This one really stuck out: the potential to issue additional free public benefits depending on the amount of growth that the population freely and naturally creates. Why? Why don't you and everyone else want things that they decide to have, not some bunch of blowhard state people? I'm sorry, but fewer and fewer people seek to have government handouts if they realize that someone else is going to be gassing about it as further tax expenses. Your idea sounds like fabled Trotskyite Marxism to me (yeah, a long time ago I saw things this way too only because I was taught that it was the way to think) and this perspective is wrongheaded in the extreme. Besides, no really informed social democrat (banker) actually believes in it. THEY assume that anything socialistic is a cheap tool to move "the masses" into doing what THEY want. We don't want more government services, which are not free. We want the means to decide what we want for ourselves. The only way we can is with our own money.
Likewise PROFIT, when i trade my own creation with that of another we are both BENEFITING from the equitable exchange which is the incentive toward creation but since it is an equitable exchange we can be said to have eliminated PROFIT from the equation altogether. Again it's just semantics.
No it isn't. Profit is essential or there is no business long term. If you trade back and forth, that's whole barter. You made something to exchange and the person on the other side of the barter made something that you wanted in exchange for your product. You can trade back and forth as much as you want and get nowhere in terms of actual living standards increase, unless you raise your production scale, and there is a natural limit for any enterprise, or unless you can have some level of acceptable and productive capitalism operating at the same time on the side. We allow finance capitalism, but it must be carried out without stealing from everyone using our money.
Further to is that every single economic boom in history has involved the injection of enormous amounts of some uniform, public means of trade in order to enable the population to FREELY EXCHANGE ALL THAT THEY CAN DO. Then the boom is typically collapsed as Private Entities SUCK the means of trade out of the system with USURY or Public Entities with TAXES, instead of ADDING MORE as people figure out how to CREATE MORE.
Fine, you understand how credit bubbles operate. All of this has a direct bearing on where money comes from. If all A members are working and capable of issuing money accordingly, the amount of money issued is always only 80% of the value of THEIRS due to THEIR income taxes and would be enough were businesses NOT to be “public” stock issuing “absentee owner” concerns. Yes, mom and pop businesses, middle class towns and customs, hard work and fair play were and are the better solution moving forward, with plenty of economic redundancy, a fair amount of competition and an absence of outsider speculators determining prices.
What about all those balances you seek to make that I suppose you assume control prices? Well, they don't. Speculators control prices, not state authorities. Want real trouble? Just mess with that and you'll have all kinds of shortages, etc. No, you keep the state out of OUR business and out of OUR money, thank-you very much. When THEIRS fails and states beg us for help, the first thing we do is hang their asses for malfeasance and then consider what really needs to be spent, because we will be paying for it in either THEIR money or ours.
This one really stuck out: the potential to issue additional free public benefits depending on the amount of growth that the population freely and naturally creates. Why? Why don't you and everyone else want things that they decide to have, not some bunch of blowhard state people? I'm sorry, but fewer and fewer people seek to have government handouts if they realize that someone else is going to be gassing about it as further tax expenses. Your idea sounds like fabled Trotskyite Marxism to me (yeah, a long time ago I saw things this way too only because I was taught that it was the way to think) and this perspective is wrongheaded in the extreme. Besides, no really informed social democrat (banker) actually believes in it. THEY assume that anything socialistic is a cheap tool to move "the masses" into doing what THEY want. We don't want more government services, which are not free. We want the means to decide what we want for ourselves. The only way we can is with our own money.
Likewise PROFIT, when i trade my own creation with that of another we are both BENEFITING from the equitable exchange which is the incentive toward creation but since it is an equitable exchange we can be said to have eliminated PROFIT from the equation altogether. Again it's just semantics.
No it isn't. Profit is essential or there is no business long term. If you trade back and forth, that's whole barter. You made something to exchange and the person on the other side of the barter made something that you wanted in exchange for your product. You can trade back and forth as much as you want and get nowhere in terms of actual living standards increase, unless you raise your production scale, and there is a natural limit for any enterprise, or unless you can have some level of acceptable and productive capitalism operating at the same time on the side. We allow finance capitalism, but it must be carried out without stealing from everyone using our money.
Further to is that every single economic boom in history has involved the injection of enormous amounts of some uniform, public means of trade in order to enable the population to FREELY EXCHANGE ALL THAT THEY CAN DO. Then the boom is typically collapsed as Private Entities SUCK the means of trade out of the system with USURY or Public Entities with TAXES, instead of ADDING MORE as people figure out how to CREATE MORE.
Fine, you understand how credit bubbles operate. All of this has a direct bearing on where money comes from. If all A members are working and capable of issuing money accordingly, the amount of money issued is always only 80% of the value of THEIRS due to THEIR income taxes and would be enough were businesses NOT to be “public” stock issuing “absentee owner” concerns. Yes, mom and pop businesses, middle class towns and customs, hard work and fair play were and are the better solution moving forward, with plenty of economic redundancy, a fair amount of competition and an absence of outsider speculators determining prices.
What we can do now and will be able to do in the future may have to do with things over which we have no control, but over which we may come to exercise more responsible control as time passes. We agree that there must be a continual source of new money else our economy like THEIRS will eventually die. We just need to get people past some terrible ideas they have from years of being told what to think rather than being taught how to think.
Absent the PRIVATE ENTITIES there is no reason for PUBLIC TAXES since the INTEREST paid to PRIVATE BANKS who issue counterfeit debt, likewise gold / silver in the past, into circulation as money FAR EXCEEDS the SUM TOTAL of ALL TAXES COMBINED.
WE ARE PRIVATE ENTITIES MR. BROWN! Every last one of us is a PRIVATE entity. States and other “public” entities are mere fictions. Oh, of course they can FORCE us to do things. But the issue Mr. Brown is THEM (who stand behind every government) and THEIR private entities (banks). Guess what? The 1st Amendment, without which the Constitution would never have been ratified, gives you, me, anyone in the US the right NOT to have to deal with anyone, we should have the right not to deal with any private entities whatsoever. Therefore, and mark this one down well, what we have now operating as our 16th Amendment (supposedly allowing Congress to set and collect income taxes) is actually unconstitutional, because it forces each of us as private individuals to pay back THEIR money to THEIR institutions. Socialized single payer medical insurance is likewise FORCING we as private individuals to deal with other PRIVATE institutions against our will, clearly a violation of the 1st Amendment. It's the same that guarantees us a lawful right to issue (from our will / fiat) our own money.
So what will it be Mr. Brown? Would you have
some state determine what will be spent, on what, where, when and how
much? That money bought things and brought them into being and paid
people for building and maintaining them, etc. Do you know what
happens quite naturally when any government spends too much money
over taxes? Prices go up. It's what any speculator would assume.
Sometimes prices don't go up as fast because underpriced things that
are depreciated are sold off first.
This is where these IDIOTS really go off the wall in that none of us has EVER seen INFLATION in our lifetimes, because of too much money in the system. We saw this in 2007 as well where prices doubled, tripled, quadrupled when the intestinal parasites SUCKED THE COUNTERFEIT BANK DEBT OUT removing purchasing power from the system where suddenly the steel mill which had been selling a million tons a month was selling 100 tons a month while having to maintain the same operating costs and prices on raw materials went up X 10. The QE debt actually managed to stabilize things a little in the short term which these ECONOMISTS blame for the inflation which happened BEFORE THE FACT. Again people have seen this happen right in front of their faces but they would rather BELIEVE the economist in defiance of what they've seen for themselves than USE THEIR BRAINS and figure out that he's LYING. The reality is that unless strictly regulated to a fixed value the money will actually increase in value along with quantity due to purchasing power balanced against the economics of volume production right until the money supply actually exceeds the population's ability to create wealth for trade at which point it would begin to devalue. We haven't seen inflation for that reason since Franklin had his public currency in effect for 50 years before the revolution and a few of the colonial governments went on spending binges and actually created more money than their populations could produce, in which case they devalued the money, but the trade / creation still took place, so they couldn't fuck it up.
This is where these IDIOTS really go off the wall in that none of us has EVER seen INFLATION in our lifetimes, because of too much money in the system. We saw this in 2007 as well where prices doubled, tripled, quadrupled when the intestinal parasites SUCKED THE COUNTERFEIT BANK DEBT OUT removing purchasing power from the system where suddenly the steel mill which had been selling a million tons a month was selling 100 tons a month while having to maintain the same operating costs and prices on raw materials went up X 10. The QE debt actually managed to stabilize things a little in the short term which these ECONOMISTS blame for the inflation which happened BEFORE THE FACT. Again people have seen this happen right in front of their faces but they would rather BELIEVE the economist in defiance of what they've seen for themselves than USE THEIR BRAINS and figure out that he's LYING. The reality is that unless strictly regulated to a fixed value the money will actually increase in value along with quantity due to purchasing power balanced against the economics of volume production right until the money supply actually exceeds the population's ability to create wealth for trade at which point it would begin to devalue. We haven't seen inflation for that reason since Franklin had his public currency in effect for 50 years before the revolution and a few of the colonial governments went on spending binges and actually created more money than their populations could produce, in which case they devalued the money, but the trade / creation still took place, so they couldn't fuck it up.
A lot going on here. We certainly HAVE seen inflation in constant dollars all my life. I recall 21 cent a gallon gasoline and 5 pair of socks for $1. BTW all those products were made in the US back then too. But I've underlined the most dubious ideas here. So yeah, Mr. Brown. You're concern is based on THEIR wrong economics and hence you can think that a $100 upright piano in 1900 and one around $5,000 a hundred years later doesn't represent inflation all you want to or that a car in 1965 for $3K or $4K which would now cost ten time that much isn't inflation all you want.
Since nobody can possibly know, and hence all social economic planners are dogmeat as far as we're concerned, we did the best we can by REMOVING COMMODITIES FROM THE EQUATION ENTIRELY. You have NOT been paying attention, so I suggest you grab a cold one and stick this one out with me one more time: we eliminated the commodity theory of money by basing the Valun on a faxed transaction in time. All Valuns are based on this one transaction. All we concern ourselves with is how much of THEIR money it takes on a day to day basis to equal the value of one of ours. A Valun today would be $2.82. It was $2.16 at inception. If our initial transaction is breached, a new transaction, always higher than the last one, is determined and all extant Valuns everywhere immediately assume the new exchange. Should gold reach $2,500 an ounce to have and to hold, then the new Valun inception would be $2.50 and so as gold (and silver) prices would tend to slide down, the Valun would get even harder and purchase more. We will not be broken by ANY of THEIR commodities futures speculation schemes, where THEY make money whether prices are rising or falling. No! THEY will not be able to break our valuations. We will begin prices in Valuns based on comparable value in THEIR money. As we proceed, we will determine that our Valun buys more than any of THEIR money and prices in Valuns will follow accordingly. The idea is to keep THEIR money for taxes and anything else that must be spent in THEIR money and to spend our Valuns for more and more useful products and services to us among ourselves. We would be in the process of weaning ourselves off THEIR money and gradually accepting responsibility for protecting and maintaining what is really our own.
We do have the basic concepts nailed down which can be applied through a number of means which we probably will have little control over as well but as long as they are understood and applied somehow an end to this INSANITY can be achieved and free and natural human progress unleashed as it should have been all along, The other factor is that in order to WORK it's going to have to be VERY SIMPLE as the more complex the more means to fuck it up. Many would balk at this but i can see the system being managed by a well programmed AI removing the potential for human fraud and corruption from the mix completely.
Really, Mr. Brown! Just where and by what does anyone that betters anything willingly give it away to those who don't, can't or won't earn the barter to purchase it? More Trotskyite Marxism; promise “the masses” plenty of FREE stuff, while you actively plan on their enslavement. What was the first institution to be started by the true sponsors of the would be revolutionaries in Russia? A bank!
I wouldn't trust AI to do anything very important for me. What's wrong with you, Mr. Brown? Why can't you see that just about everything labeled as so called technical “progress” is actually regressive and oppressive and that we did have something that was simple and from inception, unbeknownst to the general public, always prone to fraud and corruption, because those things were built into it going back hundreds of years?
You
do have some idea how difficult my message is. It's hard telling
people that they are really slaves, that the money they earn is NOT
theirs, that until they are willing to accept reality and fix it
themselves, NOT through anything political or involving any sweeping
public policies of any kind, etc. will anything get to be very much
better than it is right now, and will in fact become much worse.
People these days are conditioned not to work for themselves, to
accept a bunch of truly … stupid ideas, that if the underlying
assumptions were seen clearly would be dumped. The reason things go
on the way they do, is because everyone makes compromises with THEM
all the time. So far, THEY have us by the short hairs. It's THEIR
money and THEY will have THEIR way with us unless and until we do something
that involves walking out on THEM as our 1st Amendment
certainly provides us with enough authority to do.
In future,
we will look over what happens when more purchasing power is added to
a community by establishing a Valun exchange and how our 80% rules
keep certain things from happening, like the flight of capital from a
productive area to one that's less productive, etc.
In
future, there is going to be far fewer excuses allowed for those who
would rather not work / produce / contribute, whether those be the
structurally unemployable or those capitalists who actually believe
they are contributing while making money on their money without work.
This proposal is about promoting free PRIVATE enterprise (our real
human right) and preventing capitalism (making money on money without
work) from running amok, as when so many are employed by it that
nothing else is done. Thanks to Mr. Brown for his contributions to our
discussion. Best.]
