Thursday, March 31, 2016

#73 Ven Is a Global Digital Currency – Hub Culture

Ven Blog

Hub Culture 

In a nutshell; Ven is an online only currency associated with an invitation only international social network; Hub Culture. We want it known that the acronym VEN we have used prior to this on this blog refers to our concept of a private market; a Valun or Value Exchange Network. Until recently, we didn't even know that Ven existed. This Ven is the name of a cryptocurrency that has been around longer than this blog. A cryptocurrency is “a digital currency in which encryption techniques are used to regulate the generation of units of currency and verify the transfer of funds, operating independently of a central bank.” The company sponsoring all of this is headquartered in the UK. Right now, an upper case V with two slashes through it is their trademark symbol and right now one Ven would be equal to approximately nine cents American ($0.09483). Prices listed in Ven would look like those posted in various “soft” national fiat currencies. Ven is heavy compared with the national fiat currencies of Japan, South Korea, Mexico, etc.

It also seems that over a longer time period than our experiment has been on going, that the bid/ask rates have remained very stable between US dollars and Ven. But the acute among my readers will want to know the skinny on this one, so here it is: Ven has many things going for it, but alas it is just one more commodity masquerading as money (as is bitcoin). We'll give several references to bolster our views. The effort, as usual, is a compromise that satisfies the need for money over just what that money is. Their posts concerning Ven on their blog are the most telling. As usual, their words will be in blue, mine in black:

A Word on Issuance Protocols

Ven is issued through the Hub Culture network and is controlled by a set of algorithms that release the currency into the market under a set of fixed protocols. These protocols are determined by the Ven Central Reserve Board, a group of advisors tasked with managing the network, but the actual protocols are not widely published.

Let's rewrite this the way we see it: Ven issuance is controlled by a set of speculators who use fancy mathematics to determine how much of this digital commodity masquerading as money exists. That's a far cry from what independent free enterprise money as Riegel observed it would be. Notice how this clear concession to THEM and THEIR system is explained away as either a positive attribute or desired feature when it is clearly not.

The main protocols for issuance involve the fundamentals that determine Ven value – namely asset backing and diversification. Ven pricing is determined by a formula of underlying assets presented in a fixed ratio that when added together equal ‘100%’ of the asset allocation for Ven. This includes weighted percentages for fiat currencies, like the US dollar, Euro, Yuan, Yen, and other currencies, along with commodities like gold, silver, steel, carbon and others. The proprietary formulation is not public, but the weightings are fixed and deliver a real-time price value for Ven delivered directly from the financial markets.

We told you what our basis for a Value Unit (Valun) is. We'll state it again, it's that simple: 1 Valun = a thousandth part of a transaction involving an ounce of gold bullion = $2,160, or $2.16 on 2 November, 2011 (11022011) and THAT's all there is! We don't need any fancy math. We don't need any “advisors” or “proprietary formulations” either. All we need determine is what the comparable transaction would be for every succeeding day and compare that with the inception transaction and that determines the relations between a Valun and a US dollar (or any other major traded national fiat currency) and any precious metals. We say that all the underlined and emphasized above are indications of a currency's demerits rather than its advantages.

The basic fraud in all of this, because fraud is exactly what it is, is that money requires “backing” other than the people that issue it, who are thereby diminished in THEIR value by such ideas compared with mere stuff and things. Yes, those of you who get this should be feeling a little tinge of anger about now. Let it pass. People have been devalued since before time began. Look at it squarely folks: a social network needs “money” so their compromise is to create yet another commodity that is managed by a group of market speculators; just more of THEIR money, not OUR money since we did not issue it. I know this is going to fall hard on some people, but ordinary people when it is explained to them get it; no money that is not issued by individual human beings in the act of buying something is legitimate as money, period! You'll either eventually come to acknowledge that this is true as if it were an impassable granite cliff, or you wont, and your experiment will ultimately fail.

Hub Culture uses this price value to publish the bid/ask price for Ven on the network, and sells Ven at rates determined by the price feed. Since the underlying components are fixed but their individual pricing rates are not, individual components tend to even out pricing fluctuations.

The second aspect to the issuance protocol is the holdings and asset backing: for Ven to be issued, a corresponding purchase must be made, and the value of the purchase is recorded by the Ven ledger. The underlying funds from a purchase are then allocated into a mix of assets that reflect the underlying components. Of course, its not possible to allocate .020 from a small Ven purchase into a single asset like gold, so this is done on aggregated terms, and in the markets where Ven trades, often in real time above certain thresholds.

Here's your third party for Ven, but one that is not intrinsically part of your trading community. You should also be aware from reading this blog that the “backing” they assume is necessary in order to gain acceptance (con people) is repudiated by E. C. Riegel's simple observation that what the money buys backs it. No real money requires any “backing” at all and in fact as we have said many times now, any commodity participating in any sale determines the price, not the money itself. Therefore if you accept a commodity as money, you automatically have speculators as part of your equation.

The liquidity of these underlying assets also allows Hub Culture to match pricing and market-making, helping to keep secondary pricing for Ven within a close range of the algorithmic value. Together, these protocols help make Ven the world’s most stable digital asset, and a reliable source of value for asset holders.

So what Ven are technically is shares in a hedge fund that has as its mandate to achieve relative fixity over time in exchanges involving their underlying commodity assets, oh and they throw that “green” thing in there too, as if that's really relevant; use of words like “ecosystem,” etc. But let's find out more. We can examine the lengthy piece under FAQ

How do you describe the Ven?

Ven is a global digital currency that’s easy to use and great for the environment. It can be traded instantly to anyone with no transaction cost inside and on authorized financial exchanges. Since Ven issuance is backed, the underlying components that make up the value of Ven are important. [Are they? Why? Because some speculators think so and can make profit on the side by doing their business?] By including carbon, (along with other commodities and currencies) we are able to create a stable currency that supports the environment. [There's no evidence whatsoever that one has anything to do with the other, so what is this?] So every time you use it, you’re helping the planet.

Depending on whether you think any of this is important or that Ven use is really that far removed from national fiat currency use, perhaps you'll fall for this. No evidence exists to support that Ven use is “great for the environment,” or that “no transaction cost” is necessarily a plus. Hey, if it's free to use it, was or is it really yours? Probably you wouldn't care if for instance dealing in Ven might eventually earn you a vacation at some Hub Culture member's posh beach front resort.

How did Hub Culture develop the idea?

We needed a single price for goods and services traded among the members of Hub Culture, the global collaboration network that grew out of the book of the same name, published in 2002. In 2007 we launched the Ven to help the community exchange value efficiently. From there, it evolved to have an exchange rate, an asset basket, and other features.

The need for money arose first and it may or may not have created much of a market for actual goods and services. The need for reliable prices for everyday commodities everywhere motivated them to hire some people to come up with a “proprietary formulation,” etc. I'm real tired of being snowed, aren't you?

I'll tell you again, a Valun is a thousandth part of a transaction that happened on 11022011 involving dollars and an ounce of gold and that amount in dollars was $2.16. Henceforth each day that passed, the markets for dollars and gold decided what the Valun would be as it changed from its inception date price. So right now, in order to get the purchasing power of 11022011, one would now pay $2.77 (3/29/16). Prices in Valuns would of course be subject to supply and demand and what similar prices might be in other currencies, but over time the Valun price structure would tend to be the most stable precisely because it did not rely on so many of their speculations for money they didn't earn by honest work, etc.

Which institution controls the Ven?

Ven is issued by an algorithmic issuance engine ruled by live market data. Asset reserves, wallets, security and policy are managed by Hub Culture, advised by the Ven Central Reserve Board – a group of financial market experts.

There, doesn't that give you tremendous confidence in what you might be buying into? Let's start here, an algorithmic issuance engine ruled by live market data which means that Ven are where you and I have our natural right to issue money abrogated by a complicated mathematical machine fed data by a market that is manipulated for profit by and for the speculators. Wonderful. Just another dumb commodity faking it as money. Maybe I'll pass. In fact, maybe I should warn everyone else to pass on this scam too.

Nevertheless, we all know that there is another very true rule: if a market exists, anything can and will be used as money to facilitate it. Therefore, as much as I'd like to be a purist, there may be some actual economic advantages to dealing in Ven, just so long as we recognize that this solution isn't our money either.

Oh, and what did I say about scams? The current national fiat currency scam has been tried again and again down through time with fractional reserve lending along with huff and puff credit cycles as part of it. What did we say? It had nothing to do with THEIR money being fiat at all, it had to do with THEM usurping the natural fiat from each one of us! What they had no right to from the beginning and still don't, ultimately causes THEIR money and all THEIR “king of the mountain” schemes eventually to crash.

What’s the size of the Ven economy?

As of April 2015, we have exchanged over 500 million Ven, currently averaging about 4 million a month across the major exchanges and central issuance point at This is equivalent to about 50M USD, and US$2M a month. We are growing, and expect to pass 2 billion Ven exchanged by the end of 2015. Currently redemption happens only on regulated partner exchanges to other digital currencies (Kraken Exchange) or to sovereign currencies (LMAX Exchange), or via the goods and services merchant system with Hub Culture.

As we said above, there may be practical reasons for using Ven. One must usually walk before one gets to run.

How is inflation controlled?

We minimize inflation risk by maintaining a reserve backing for Ven in issuance – which means that for any Ven out in the world, there are reserve funds equal to the component value of the underlying basket. Inflation is lower than in normal fiat currency because the basket includes commodities, but can not be totally eliminated because much of the underlying reserves include fiat currencies, which are indeed subject to inflation.

As they said, this is a “proprietary formulation” whereas the proposed Valun system stands academic economics against the wall and says, “we ourselves back the value of any money we decide to issue.” That assurance would be printed on any note passed among members as money and whether ultimately a matter of accounting or not, the people would begin to have in their hands the means to organize and correct the ills facing this world.

What safeguards are in place to protect the currency?

In addition to online security, cryptography and ID factors, one of the biggest advantages of Ven is the social, transparent nature that comes with operating Ven linked to a social network. The socially open component of Ven makes transparency a major security feature.

Everyone wants to feel safe in a relatively unsafe world. But they usually expect others to assure them of their own safety rather than going about making themselves feel as safe as they need to be. I don't know how to rate this as anything more than symptomatic of our current social situation.

Can you bank in Ven?

Ven accounts function similarly to an online wallet, enabling store of value, exchange and the ability to invest Ven into a number of virtual currency related products and services. Major financial groups like Citibank and MasterCard have been at the forefront of Ven growth by purchasing Ven for their own use, and banks are trading Ven in institutional markets.

This is like saying that since other financial pirates are trading using Ven that somehow makes it “bankable” as if it can preserve its essential value in the usual capitalistic manners and considerations. Those reading this blog know our take on “idle money.” If your money is ide, you're saving it so you can use it later, that's all. It requires no special treatment besides that and if it were so, then the process would most certainly have to occur through usury which we maintain is stealing (and those that disagree can go to hell).

Can you print Ven when you need to? What safeguards are in place to stop that?

Since Ven is digital, the release of currency is linked to purchase with fiat currency or by algorithmic rules enabling people to earn Ven – by inviting friends to use it, for instance.

This sounds like a points reward system, and that's fine, for whatever it is. But it's not a Valun nor shall it ever be. Amusement park rides and playing games with pirates and other scams may seem like the only interesting thing going right now, but we think otherwise. We see a time coming when most people will have to know people who can do specific things and do them well. Maybe you'll pay them in Ven, maybe not. We expect that if THEY do not clean up their messes, since it was THEY not we that have wreaked havoc on the environment, there may not be a future. Fukushima is real and it must be solved, or else. But is anyone doing anything about it? How would using Ven as money possibly help that?

Oversight of reserves is managed in conjunction with our reserve banking partners, including HSBC and Morgan Stanley, and via the Ven Central Reserve Board who approve any changes to the structure of the currency. We’re also working on an outside insurance policy review to provide additional assurances around Ven for our community.

I'd like you all to notice something here; we offer no assurances about Value Units (Valuns) because they don't need any. And look what assurances they're presenting; two prominent banks (wasn't HSBC involved with some market rigging scandal, oh well).

How can people trust that?

Trust comes with time, usage and reliability. We’ve worked hard over the last seven years to build trust with Ven and to provide a service and unit of account that adds value to the finance ecosystem.

Use of the word ecosystem turns me right off! An ecosystem and those that believe in one, think in terms of balance, peace and harmony, nothing fundamentally changes, everyone gets something and is happy, etc. a compromise. Eventually there wont be any compromises. Why not choose something that would be yours from the outset? Oh and of course we're always puzzled by people telling others that they've worked so hard to build trust. You know what folks? Most people can actually trust others it's just that we have been literally deceived over our entire lifetimes and those of all our ancestors back through time and we've had to deal with a bunch of garbage that isn't even ours just to live our lives ... and we're really tired of it.

When you first announced it, how did people react?

In the beginning, people were skeptical that the world needed virtual currency – especially in the financial industry. We spent a lot of time, effort and money developing the Ven ecosystem so the currency had an environment in which to trade. [They paid some people off] As Ven has grown, and the carbon advantages for the planet became apparent as we developed, people have become more enthusiastic about the potential for Ven, and can see how it fits in.

Now then, what if the carbon advantages for the planet do NOT became apparent? What then? As I said, and I mean it, if Fukushima is not fixed, it's all over anyway. Keeping the “Global Warming” hoax alive one second longer than it needs to in order to take people's minds away from solving Fukushima is indulging in criminal collusion! So how “green” is this Ven really?

How many organizations accept Ven? Who are they and why do they use it?

We have thousands of people and organizations using Ven through the stores, through supplier relationships and other activities and over 30 Fortune 500 companies have used Ven. Ven is being extended to regulated third parties via plugins to ecommerce and the like, but there are some regulatory limitations to what we can do on exchange out of Ven, and we need to make sure we follow a conservative approach with regard to these extensions.

Here again you have mention of Fortune 500 companies (public corporations all), more capitalists, etc. using Ven. The message, if they use Ven maybe you should too. Join the party while it's still going on, etc. We of course take a much longer view of these things, regard anything that isn't privately owned and managed locally as a chimera; “a thing that is hoped or wished for but in fact is illusory or impossible to achieve.” Let me make sure you got that; all “public” corporations are 1) creatures of states and 2) owned by “shareholders” or “stakeholders” who expect to make money on money by trading the debt and equity instruments of these “bodies.” This is capitalism and we do not consider it an honourable way to earn a living. How's that?

What’s the best story you’ve heard where Ven was used?

There are some great examples of uses. We discovered Ven is powering data transmission between ocean buoys collecting wave data at sea with artificial intelligence agents in the cloud – which is wild because it heralds an era of autonomous machine to machine payments. We have also enabled commodity trades using Ven, which provide a derivative carbon offset to the trade. This model sets a framework in place that could have a huge impact on commodity trading at scale, by embedding carbon offsets to trades and helping make the world a greener place. Finally we are working on SMS capabilities for wide financial inclusion.

Why aren't we impressed? Let us count the ways. None of this has anything to do with anything meaningful. How about cleaning up Fukushima and forget about everything else until that is done?

To what extent is Ven a novelty currency?

Ven started out as a community currency for Hub Culture and has evolved into a viable solution for the financial world at large – especially around Internet linked transactions.

OK, and if that's your thing, you should maybe look into using Ven. This post was mostly intended as words to the wise concerning knowing ahead of time exactly what you're getting into.

How have you seen Ven used in a criminal sense?

No. All Ven is transacting out through the Stores or regulated exchanges, and large transactions are guided by our Knowledge Brokerage team, where KYC and other research on the transaction is conducted with HubID. Since Ven is transparent, stable and resource backed, it doesn’t have the same traits that make other virtual currencies attractive in these ways.

Probably so. But it's like everything these days; look before you leap.

What do you want to see happen with the Ven?

Ven operates at three levels – P2P, corporate and institutional. We would like to see members have the ability to trade Ven easily in mobile environments and to use it for a wide variety of activities. At the institutional level our ambition is to have 0.5% of global commodity trades priced in Ven. This would create enormous momentum for investment into carbon related assets, which could change the balance of power for clean energy and preservation of carbon rich areas (forests, oceans etc).

A carbon offset is “a reduction in emissions of carbon dioxide or greenhouse gases made in order to compensate for or to offset an emission made elsewhere.” Does that sound even remotely like its anything other than non polluters paying for the pollution of others? I'll tell you all something folks; the people behind this are smart. They are going to get what they intend long term. They'll move all the “dirty” industries no one wants in their backyards overseas, make the countries where the industries were pay for where they are now and the same mess will go on chasing the last blessed infernal eleventh marble spawned by usurious agreements demanding payment of that which was never created in the first place. This carbon offset trading is all clearly a giant scam. I wont even bother responding to anyone who dares claim otherwise! Damn fools! We'll clearly have none of this collusion with criminals in our IE's.

Various websites say you can buy carbon credits with Ven. How and why?

You can – we offer a range of options related to carbon credits on our platform at, from individual offset tonnage (where you can calculate your individual total footprint) to specific VER assets from partner projects, to funds that pool funding for placement with specific projects. The Why is simple – upward demand and financial support for environmental assets is one of the best ways to ensure they are protected. We curate relevant projects to make it easy for our community to access them. Click here to see the range.

More bullshit! Come on, eat it up and swallow it down without thinking about it. It's just some nasty pabulum THEY force feed you so THEY can get their giant scam off the ground to fund more social tyranny around the world. Wonderful!

Microfinance – what’s the story?

Ven is a tremendous tool for microfinance because it divides easily and exchanges without friction, making it a perfect means of exchange at the microfinance level. We’ve been working to develop 3rd party partnerships in the microfinance sector to extend this to mobile transactions and to make sure that Hub Culture is supporting the right type of partners with Ven related services. Our Africa Impala project is designed to bring local language, light mobile-oriented Ven interfaces to Africa – and we are targeting central and eastern Africa with that project for trials beginning summer 2015.

What's there to not like about microfinance? It's usually just more usury, that's all. If one gets in too deep without reaping rewards for one's efforts, then one is in debt, often hopelessly. It's better for everyone when this happens that none of the money lost was uncreated needing to be paid back, that all of it existed before it was lent, etc. That's honest finance and the way WE want things. Only the finance racketeers want things the way they are, and no “Austrian” or Keynesian is going to disagree with the fundamental “rights of capital” as understood by capitalists and capitalism, just another ism upon society that irritates it. We offer a far better way.

What is a “singular value”?

Singular value is a concept first described by Stan Stalnaker in a TechCrunch article that examines the eventual relationship between the social graph, big data and monetary exchange. As data becomes pervasive and absolutely comparable, we will assign value to points on the graph, and they will eventually become exchangeable. Whether a proxy for a real world asset or a digital point, once this exchange becomes available, it tends to negate the need for “currency”, because everything becomes effectively comparable and exchangeable in real time. Of course currencies will still exist for ease of labelling, but in a way, many things will function as currency in this constantly comparing world of ‘singular value’.

What they're discussing here is nothing short of instantaneous gambling on the prices of commodities so that round lots of these commodities are securitized and sold as shares in markets and at certain points value is assigned to these round lots as if they themselves were units of measure in a currency. Might we say this is pinheaded to say the least! You're moving in exactly the wrong direction. No matter what you are doing, you're still bartering commodities for other commodities or services for commodities or whatever and none of that passes as money under our strict definition. We've said all along that anything could perform the function of money, anything at all, but of what's out there, how much of it, any of it, had to do with you? How much of the money out there is really yours? Simple, if it did not come from you, it isn't yours. So, what we imply is that to the extent that some other “money” is suitable in function, it will be used by those who take need of it, but it still wont be money and it most certainly will not ever be yours. And really, upon all that, “whose money is it anyway?” rests every other possible humane concern.

Hub Culture was a first mover in digital currency. How do you think virtual currency will develop over the next decade?

Hub Culture was one of the earliest players in the social network space and we all saw how large the category has become. I think the virtual currency sector will be as large and maybe even more impactful than the social network sector, and in many ways they will intersect and be related. We’re in the center of these developments and happy to be innovating for our community in these areas.

Fair answer.

How do you feel about the Bitcoin and Ripple now getting so much coverage even though the Ven has been around a long time?

Ven is very different from both Bitcoin and Ripple, and the systems all have great potential to function together to serve different needs. With the arrival of other units of exchange, innovation in the space is set to accelerate, and it will be great to see how these elements work together. For instance, it won’t be long before virtual currency exchanges operate like current fiat currency exchanges, and we expect someday you’ll be seeing IPOs on virtual exchanges just like you see them today on the NYSE.

Notice that the answer always involves an essentially capitalist approach.

Are there connections with Bitcoin?

Hub Culture holds and manages Bitcoin assets for customers and uses Ven purchase options to hold Bitcoin without all the hassle. In fact, we launched a Ven Fund that allows users to hold both Ven and Bitcoin together.

Both are virtual commodities. There is built in scarcity involved and once one does that, that monetary vehicle becomes just another commodity subject to speculation. Speculators enjoy making money on money rather than working for it making and growing things or providing real services to others. Like high stakes gamblers, they take their “earnings” from everyone else's efforts and that money is of course claims on society for their livelihood. This is not the focus of a healthy society and again anyone who doesn't agree can go to hell. People should acquire skills they can use to trade for their livelihood using money they themselves issue. Anything else is going to be a concession to the banksters and gamesters who would rather play than work, and have found a socially accepted means of living from the sweat of others.

What’s the future of the Ven given Bitcoin is getting all the headlines?

Ven is inherently stable, transparent and less liquid than Bitcoin, so it feels very conservative in comparison. For almost seven years we’ve been developing and innovating with Ven in a careful way, and we’d rather take that approach. Building a currency that has a positive social impact is key to our approach, even if it means sacrificing catchy headlines. 

Since what they intend is a matter of how money is spent rather than playing a bunch of frankly ridiculous financial games and saying that you're cleaning up something when you are not, there is every likelihood that long term Ven wont be around. We'd give it a 50%/50% chance to be gone in ten years or less.

Will Hub Culture accept Bitcoin or Ripple in its network?

We’re working on some developments in that area, but have concerns about the KYC aspects of Bitcoin related to full monetary exchange. We would prefer to keep Ven as squeaky clean as possible, and so full exchange from us is not likely to happen right away.


How much do you make through the Ven? Is the pricing transparent?

Hub Culture does not actually make anything on Ven – and there is no pricing cost to us when acquiring or trading it. We make a margin on sale for goods and services through our stores, and it is through this that we are able to manage and maintain the currency for the benefit of others.

All right, then this falls under the category of a retailer issued currency and there's nothing unfamiliar with the concept and it actually works reasonably well. The Canadian tire money is a good example and yes there would be some loyalty involved with shopping regularly at Hub Culture stores.

How long does it take to transact – and do you make a profit on the transaction time?

The average transaction takes less than a second, and about 30 seconds to complete from login to finish. We do not take a cut on transactions.

Unlike Riegel's understanding of who should pay the transaction fees, though they be as small as 1/10th of 1%, they choose to make a percentage from the products they sell, which is exactly what a retailer sponsoring their own money would do.

What are Ven Authorities?

Hub Culture has appointed a number of partners as Authorities, which federate Ven functions into other networks. These Authorities generally provide regulated services, such as new business models and cash-out for Ven to sovereign currencies. Companies can apply to become a Ven Authority, and pass a selection process with business reviews. Authority status is granted in two year, renewable increments. Current Ven Authorities include LMAX, Kraken, UC Group, Validsoft, Alternet Systems and Pyxpay.

Flexibility always wins out long term and even short term. We might excuse the term “authority” being used here. Does it make anyone more comfortable knowing that certain “authorities” exist? Increasingly we doubt it. What will really make Ven work for its creators is when they can get together real things at each of their hub locations that real people want and would buy with Ven if they could earn them.

To learn more about Ven: and

We encourage you all to have a look. As we've always said, alternative money is an area where one has to walk before one gets to run. It should be clear enough from this brief summary that the people behind Ven put up local national fiat money in order to launch Ven. If we were to launch an alternative money based on this blog's proposal, we would still require some things to be purchased in whatever national fiat currency is in common use. We'd expect businesses that signed up with us to understand that this money would all be legitimate advertising expenses. They would go largely to provide the physical tokens of the monetary system. Oh, I know, people think they're gone in form, that this technotronic age will just go merrily on the way it has. We're not at all sure about that. Why should we be? Look what's happened over the past 25 years. A lot of innocent people killed for what? And Fukushima still dumps poison into the Pacific Ocean and now most of the North Pacific may be biologically dead. And some want us to be concerned about carbon offsets as a way to make the world greener with less pollution and radiation? Who is trying to fool who and why? Come on people. It's time to think about causing to come into being YOUR money.

David Burton

Current Hypothetical Value of a Hypothetical Value Unit

[2 April, 2016: Some names for things we discussed. How about Valun Trading Community? We like basing it at the county level in the US for a number of reasons, so each county would have one. The most local geographical entities the better. Clint, Oregon

Well, you could call them any number of things. There might even be enough people in some places to have competing IEs because we don't know yet what the scaling factor to service is going to be required.

I see you finally do admit that your VEN using the Valun as money would require some state money to get going. Glad to hear it. Now, how do you sell it to the people? Evan, Arkansas

We have a ways to go before we get there. The proposal requires people to want to make it happen, there has to be enough people who actually understand this blog and want their own money. But we're dealing with many who are not conditioned or organized to resist the full onslaught of the beast empire's intentions of control and command, come what may.

To begin with, we would have to take a tally of those who would be willing to be loosely associated with each other in terms of doing mutually advantageous deals to remain viable as personal, private or family owned businesses, if there are any left. Obviously folks, one of the planks of our proposal is that repurposing (a much better word to be heard than anything “sustainable”) on every level is going to be a trend into the future. We are literally going to have to rebuild and recreate whole levels of productive skill sets for the future. We also want to preserve things about ourselves that are unique, that are not part of the “everyone's the same, one style fits all,” attempts at global culture mashing as is being deliberately done today. Again, there really is a better way.

The tally of businesses has to be organized as mutual advertising; they would be joining a local private organization that each one would have a voice in. They would meet monthly to discuss the project of first getting together a respectable conference for the purpose of putting forth the proposal. This would be the first meeting of the proposed International Valun Exchange Society or IVES. IVES would among other things be charged with describing and designing the IS - AD systems that all the accredited IEs would use. That takes some of THEIR money to get going.

If one thinks of an alternative or complementary money as a coupon system or a method of sales promotion, then the concept is easier to grasp; each of the tokens contains the name, address, etc. and assorted artwork for a business which is a B member of an independent exchange (IE). Of course we would intend to prove the soundness of our money through experience and since we would all be using exactly the same measure of value, trade across vast distances is assured. There is no need for anything fancier than a spreadsheet to figure anything out. The whole thing could be designed to run on laptops and thumb drives.

The fanciest part of the entire system is the printed tokens. These would of course be printed and then, in the case of V-Checks, assigned an expiration date, in order to pass as complementary money in most locales.

But it's not possible to get even that far without the people actually organizing together and making it happen. Remember folks, if one accepts that it is one's individual right to issue one's own money, especially when it comes to being paid in one's own money, then it follows that all those that accept this should get themselves together and make it happen. We are not interested in accepting any state money or as some like calling it “national fiat currency” up front through this website because we are far more interested in getting people to assume some responsibility for bringing this into reality.

We'd start by conducting meetings at the local level, discussing some of the concepts discussed on this blog, and then canvasing individual counties, getting as many people to sign up to accept accounts and agree to use Valuns when they appear, etc. If we ask someone to walk out of the nightmare, make believe, “unsustainable” banker/corporate dystopia, then you really have to have somewhere for people to move to.]

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